"Theirs Is A Land Of Hope And Glory..." (AW)

[Zippy]

Theirs Is A Land Of Hope And Glory...

It's quite a rarity that someone changes their political allegiances so dramatically in life, never mind in the time it took a once "naïve" Adam (by his own concession, no less) to realise the error of his ways. With his impressive experience of both ends of the political spectrum, we are lucky to have a documented case of this change.

However, was Adam right to change his political standing? Do you agree with his views on the "weirdos" and "Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep"? Feel free to comment.

[James 'Ove Glove' Longmore]

I have to commend Adam for his political swing into the realms of acceptable politics and for a very well written and conceived article it is as Matthew says a nice change. I agree heartily with the idea that the changing of the names of holidays and nursery rhymes to more 'politically correct' inoffensive material but it must be understood that the vast majority of these changes are proposed by the labour councillors in the relevant constituencies in an effort to prevent insult to other races or religions.


In response to my BNP statement:

Extremism of any form is to be condemned by all right minded people, the few that condone it are those who have not the intellect to mediate a reasonable solution to a problem and must rely on violence to force people into line, we saw it with Russia and Nazi Germany and currently in Nepal and Belarus.

My branding of the BNP as the cause of the vast majority of racial tension in Lancashire is that they take to the streets and whip an already wary public into a frenzy. I have read transcripts of Nick Griffin speeches and even as a white citizen of the UK (who he claims to represent) his casting of Muslims and Asians made me feel quite sick in the pit of my stomach.

That vile man in my opinion is a cause of inciting racial hatred, just as the extremist clerics do. I do not condone attacks by any social group on another, but, the attacks by Asians could be seen through fear of the rising racist sentiments. There will always be two sides to the same coin and I confess this is simply a hypothesis.

My giving the culpability to the BNP in my opinion was well founded, as a political party in this country they are responsible for controlling their followers and they are also responsible for putting forward the image of this country as a multi-cultural melting pot where as should be so in a democracy all people are equal before the law and before their representatives in Parliament. This does not mean all white people are equal with an under class of minority races, it means all people regardless of colour of creed. As the most prominent of the extreme right parties BNP have the ability to curb the actions of many extremist right wingers. The BNP's aim is identical to the Nazi aim in the 1930's to cause racial discord in society and laying the blame for the country's failings at the door of those terrible extremist Muslims. Who Nick Griffin has already said are bound by the Quran to seek out and rape young English girls

""The bastards that are in that gang [of British Asians in Keighley just convicted], they are in prison so the public think it's all over. Well it's not. Because there's more of them. Their 'good book' tells them that that's acceptable.

"If you doubt it, go and buy a copy and you will find verse after verse saying you can take any woman you want as long as they're not Muslim. These 18, 19 and 25-year-old Asian Muslims are seducing and raping white girls in this town right now."" (the report citation evades me at the present moment, but these are quotes from video evidence submitted to Leeds Crown Court in the trial of Mssrs. N. Griffin & M. Collet in July, 2005 from the BBC documentary leading to their being charged with multiple counts of incitement to racial hatred)

I can assure you that this is not the case having read a translation of the Quran cover to cover.

Hitler laid the blame for Germany's failings at the feet of the Jews and socialists and look what happened to them. It is also no coincidence that the BNP speeches and rallies are held in areas with a large concentration of minority people, aiming to inflame racial tensions to a point where fear brims over into pre-emptive strikes by both sides. The Asians fear the inflamed tempers of the white community and the white community are afraid of these "raping religious fundamentalists" that are portrayed by the BNP ergo we have racial tension. The BNP in my opinion through its rallies and speeches light the touch paper in already fragile neighbourhoods, they skirt the laws banning incitement to racial hatred by referring to people as 'Muslims' (a religious group) rather than 'Asians' (a racial category), this will soon also be illegal as there is a bill outlawing the incitement to religious hatred in the process of being enacted (if not already so).

Groups like the National Front and the BNP are abhorrent groups that I would happily see outlawed on the grounds of ethical and moral corruption and until they are nothing but a couple of skin heads sat in the corner of a run down house ranting at each other I will continue to lay the vast majority of Britain's racial discord firmly at their feet as it is they who actively seek neighbourhoods where there the balance is on a knife edge and push that balance, it is they who make false statements (not interpretations but wholly false statements) about other races and religions. I hold no particular political sentiments as in my opinion all political parties in the UK at the moment are a shambles and I would rather vote no confidence than be associated with any of them. I have my political opinions and they are mine and mine alone, I expect people to disagree and I expect some people to agree with elements.

Should people desire quotations from the Noble Quran or quotations from the Hadith of the Holy Prophet supporting my points against Nick Griffin I will be more than willing to provide them as long as I am able to locate them, with my limited access to Islamic religious texts. For those interested in researching the the Hadith themselves an accessible book is available in the form of 'Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik ibn Anas: The First Formulation of Islamic Law'

James Longmore

[spiritofstlouis]

An excellent response, and one, barring one or two points, I wholeheartedly agree with.

The possibility that the Asians (Muslims, which they were) attacked the white youths because of rising racial sentiments could be a plausible one. However, in my opinion, they did it because they are as wrong as any BNP or NF member. In all cross-sections of society we get the brain-dead few, the dregs of society who only know violence and hate. These Asian youths were mainly thugs who decided to get their kicks out of beating up innocent people up, on these occasions the victims being white. The BNP did not help the situation in Lancashire, but nor did the local Asians and nor did the local whites.

We live in a fair, democratic country therefore I would not want to see the BNP outlawed. By doing this you create even more fanatical followers who will just go underground and resort to more extreme measure to get their point across. If we ignore and humour them then the British public and the Government show they are not afraid, and I truly believe after a while they will fizzle out and become the nobodies they once were. They thrive on publicity and without they will be destroyed.

Furthermore, I do not believe the Muslim community is immune from blame. More needs to be done to integrate them into the British community because if they don't the tension will only rise. Even groups such as Red Action, Anti-Fascist Action and the Socialist Labour Party realise this. By keeping themselves separate from the rest of the British public they only create hostility and fear around them, even if this is not their intention. I believe that this case applies to anyone who moves abroad; the expatriate British in Spain for example.

Regarding your comments about the Quran; I'm afraid I have no knowledge whatsoever of its teachings so I couldn't comment on the interpretations Griffin has taken from it.

Adam Waller

[Zippy]

Griffin is obviously someone who makes things up for his own gain. After all, he's clever enough to target the more ethnic-based communities to build up followers because they see the "problems" the BNP speak of more in their areas than anyone else does around the country.

Adam's right with the democracy issue, I feel - I do not think the British public is fickle enough to allow them to gather any real power, and the extreme right-wing is so divided within itself that they could never channel their bile into one direction.

My view is that the foundations of racial tensions in the worst-affected areas of the country cannot be attributed to any one side, as minor incidents are overly-attributed to racial, not general attack, just because varying skin colour is involved. This isn't only done by the tabloids, but the parties themselves, although the right-wing will interpret anything involving "darkies" as racial tension, whilst conveniently forgetting all about white gangs murdering blacks for no real reason (Barton and chum's axe attack, anyone?).

[Geg]

Drive-by comment: I wrote this a while ago; it's vaguely relevant

[James 'Ove Glove' Longmore]

Democracy is a touchy area to be dealing with, in its purest form it gives the right of audience to any passing lunatic (Hyde Park Corner of old and the ever favourite Christian "you're all damned unless you repent" types). I believe that any group professing openly and publicly that there are persons within a state who are 'inferior' to others is itself a corruption of democracy, therefore democracy as a equal voice for all is not a valid argument in favour of a group professing superiority of any group be it religious or racial.

I naturally allow for the 'brain-dead few' that exist within society, and I do not profess that any party is innocent and I dont provide excuses for violence. I do not condone violence merely provide a hypothesis as to why they committed the attacks and that does not exonerate them from blame; they should still be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and I take a particularly hard line view on justice, favouring actual punishment as opposed to probation and suspended sentences.

You say that the local Asians and Whites in Lancashire did not help the situation, I agree they did not help it but unlike the BNP they did not seek to inflame it either. The two communities were tentatively passing ships in the night until the BNP stirred up trouble. As for humouring a group that preaches hate, racism and violence towards other castes of people I do not in the least find it funny and find no time for them, as I find no time for militant Islam, Christianity or any other form of militant activity.

I agree integration of all races and religions into 'mainstream' society is essential but it has to be understood how insular Islam is, it governs what they eat (Halal/Haram) their daily prayers being them into constant contact with each other. Stricter Muslims get their food from Muslim butchers who provide what they need, they mingle with people they can talk about their old country and swap stories. People who understand them and with who they can empathise.

Racial tension is Britains problem, the minorities are (for the most part) tolerant and here to work and therefore it is, in my opinion, Britains job to educate and inform and welcome the addition of the diverse nature of different cultures and faiths, we have people protesting about the building of places of worship for different faiths and it people wonder why minorities retreat into themselves. The hand needs to be extended by Britain to welcome the minorities into the fold, they also need to be educated I believe that immigration policy should contain a crash course in British culture and how things work, along with a minimum language requirement because we all know how it feels on holiday when people are speaking 'gobble de gook' and we are in the dark.

[Geg]

themessiah said:

The hand needs to be extended by Britain to welcome the minorities into the fold

What about all the minorities who are already part of Britain? Wait – when you said “Britain” you didn't mean them. Oops.

themessiah said:

I believe that immigration policy should contain a crash course in British culture and how things work, along with a minimum language requirement because we all know how it feels on holiday when people are speaking 'gobble de gook' and we are in the dark.

I agree with that.

[Zippy]

I fully agree with complete integration; whether it be through minimum requirements, or through teaching those in need the language, etc.

By fully shutting down immigration we'd be destroyed. We need the immigrants for under-represented skills - the BNP may well complain that the "real British people" can do these, but when you've got the white trash who demand housing and benefits (The Mirror, 17 April 2006: 10-person family on £32,000 from the government, demanding a 10-bed mansion), it's evident that many can't be bothered to get off of their lazy arses and do some real graft.

We should mend the problems with "our real British people" before shifting the blame onto minorities who seem to be tarred with the brush of the tiny amount of extremists. Muslims are not all Abu Hamza.